jacob naviaaécrit：

jacob navia a écrit :

嗨

我有汇总一份文件，解释lcc-win32的大部分扩展，
为什么它们已经完成，它们为什么有用，以及使用这些扩展的
字符串/容器库的文档。

此文件尚未完成，但我将非常感谢您的反馈。

jacob

网址：

ftp://ftp.cs.virginia.edu/pub/lcc-win32/proposal.pdf

我认为此类文件是一件好事。对于丢失的小型实用程序来说，C是非常强大的

（有时候对于不那么小的

实用程序）。没有确实好的工具和糟糕的工具，我们知道的工具和我们不知道的工具。第一个通常是（不是总是b $ b）***的东西。

对于我读过的部分，它是好的工作！

I think this type of document is a very good thing. C is very powerful
for a lost of small utilities (and sometimes for ''not so small
utilities''). There are no indeed good tools and bad tools, there is
tools we known and tools we don''t known. First one are often (not
always) the best to make things.
For the part I''ve read, it''s good work !

jacob navia写道：

jacob navia wrote:

嗨

我已经整理了一份文件，解释了lcc-win32的大部分扩展，
为什么它们已经完成，为什么它们可能有用，以及使用这些扩展的
字符串/容器库的文档。

这个文档还没有完成但我会很感激您的反馈。

jacob

网址：

ftp://ftp.cs.virginia.edu/pub/lcc-win32/proposal.pdf

>

我还没看完整个文件，但这里有一些关于我b $ b b b评论的评论：


1.1 动机：

C作为一种独立语言的所有开发已经停止，C已经

已经降级到过去了。


这是大多数人会认为这样的声明

废话，很可能让很多人不服用严肃地说，在那之后你说的话。你甚至在

的下一句话中自相矛盾：


然而，对简单而有效的语言的需求仍然存在，并且C

是今天运行的许多系统和许多新系统的选择语言。


所以C已经降级到过去，但是仍然是选择的语言

对于许多当前和新系统？


"此提案的目的是纠正某些缺失的功能

的C字符串就像它的字符串库一样，缺少一个容器库，其中有很多改进，这些改进已成为很多计算机语言的一部分，因为很长一段时间没有引入任何新的复杂性或性能损失。


我不认为你可以声称你的提案中的想法没有添加

复杂性或者可以在不造成性能损失的情况下实施。


您在文档中提出了几个好处，一个这可能是值得的b $ b值得自己考虑作为

语言中公认问题的解决方案。但总的来说，你似乎在提出一些基本的改变，这将是一个全新的语言。

是一种全新的语言。


我不明白尝试改变语言的心态

更接近其他更高级别的语言而不是使用

其他内容或提出单独的语言

。如果我需要垃圾收集，容器，操作员

重载等，我将使用Java或Ruby或其他语言

更符合我的需求。如果C被改装了所有额外的

，你提出它不会让我对这个任务更具吸引力，并且会使这个任务变得不那么有吸引力我目前使用的东西是
。我相信，最终的结果将推动人们远离语言。对于您讨论的许多

功能并没有太多的需求，并且接受了C99标准，其中包括许多功能比需求更多的功能。你的建议，我不认为你有可能从C社区得到一个温暖的招待会

。


我的建议是要么专注于一两个想法来解决那些对C社区真正重要的问题（缓冲区溢出

预防和字符串抽象现在似乎很热门）并且

以可能很受欢迎的方式实施或只是建议

创建一种新语言（如D所做的那样）。


Robert Gamble

I haven''t read the entire document but here are some comments on what I
did review:

1.1 "Motivation":
"All development of C as an independent language has ceased and C has
been relegated to the past."

This is the kind of statement that most people here will consider
nonsense and is likely to keep many people from taking seriously
anything you say after that point. You even contradict yourself in the
very next sentence:

"The need for a simple and efficient language persists however, and C
is the language of
choice for many systems running today and many new ones."

So C has been relegated to the past but is still the language of choice
for many current and new systems?

"The objective of this proposal is to correct certain missing features
of C like its string library and the lack of a container library with a
few improvements that have been part of many computer languages since a
long time without introducing any new complexity or performance loss."

I don''t think you can claim that the ideas in your proposal don''t add
complexity or can be implemented without incurring a performance loss.

You present a couple of good points in the document, ones that may be
worth considering on their own as solutions to recognized issues in the
language. As a whole though, you seem to be proposing a number of
(what many would consider) radical changes which would really result in
an entirely new language.

I don''t understand the mentality of trying to change the language to
more closely resemble other higher-level languages as opposed to using
something else that is out there or proposing a seperate language
altogether. If I need garbage collection, containers, operator
overloading, etc. I am going to use Java or Ruby or some other language
that better suits my needs. If C was retrofitted with all the extras
that you are proposing it wouldn''t make it more attrative to me for
such tasks and would make the langauge less attractive for the things I
currently use it for. The net result would, I believe, push people
away from the language. There hasn''t been much demand for many of the
features you discuss and given the reception of the C99 Standard, which
included many features that were in greater demand than your
suggestions, I don''t think you are likely to get a warmer reception
from the C community.

My suggestion is to either focus on one or two ideas that address
issues that really matter to the C community (buffer overflow
prevention and string abstractions seem to be hot right now) and are
implemented in ways that are likely to be well-received or just propose
the creation of a new language (like D did).

Robert Gamble

On Sun，2006年5月14日22:35:14 +0200，jacob navia

< ja *** @ jacob.remcomp.fr>写道：

On Sun, 14 May 2006 22:35:14 +0200, jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:

嗨

我已经整理了一份文件，解释了lcc-win32的大部分扩展，
为什么它们已经完成，为什么它们可以成为有用的，以及使用这些扩展的
字符串/容器库的文档。

本文档尚未完成，但我将非常感谢您的反馈。

jacob
ftp://ftp.cs.virginia.edu/pub/lcc-win32/proposal.pdf

第一段，第三段句子：

C作为一种独立语言的所有开发已经停止，C已经降级到过去。


啊，好吧，毕竟这只是雅各布的另一个广告。我不打算再读一读了。


-

Al Balmer

亚利桑那州太阳城

First paragraph, third sentence:
"All development of C as an independent language has ceased and C has
been relegated to the past."

Ah, well, it''s just another advertisement for Jacob, after all. I
didn''t bother to read further.

--
Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ